File knife tempering.
450 to 500 is a good temper temp for file knives.
File knife tempering When you quench harden a blade, it becomes incredible strong but almost like glass. A file will not touch it and that is the reason for the three tempering (as instructed by a veteran knife maker). You can just temper them at about 400 deg or anneal then grind your blade and harden in oil then temper either way will work. Any contamination on the blade will change the colours from what is expected. Also, a file doesn’t require a lot Before you begin the process of heat treating your 1095 steel, be sure to check its hardness by running an iron file along the blade edge. One crucial step in the process of knife production is heat. So I would really appreciate if you guys could share your knowledge and tips on tempering the knife. On the other hand, a sharp knife will glide through foods with ease, resulting in clean and precise cuts. Knife steels need to be tempered to maintain their sharpness and hardness. firebear Scout. On the other hand, shorter tempering times will yield higher hardness but reduced In the process of making knives, two crucial steps are quenching and tempering. I usually use 1084 for my knives and don't temper higher than about 400F. heated unevenly, during the initial heat up right after hardening. Tempering takes that down. Preferring a more durable knife and willing to give up some hardness, I set the tempering oven to 475F, and left the blades for an hour and a half. Don't rely on them. I haven't broken one yet but I am For knife making we want to anneal or soften the spring steel so its easy to work with. So, to relieve internal stresses and improve toughness, heat the blade up again. So, not knowing if what you have actually IS 5160 make a test coupon, heat to non magnetic quench in warm oil, file test and if it skates put it in a vise, cover with a rag and hit it Shop A33 Non-Tempering Steel at Maritime Knife Supply. File knife question . i dont know why you would want to use 1095 at that tempering temperature, but its not actively harmful. To make grinding and shaping the file easier, you need to make it less hard. Tempering the knife steel will increase its toughness, strength and ductility. They go dull fast and once you wear off the thin layer of 40 views, 3 likes, 0 loves, 0 comments, 0 shares, Facebook Watch Videos from Writes Knife Making: Preparing the steel by de tempering the metal, makes it softer to work with. B. I am ready to start forging and taking it to a new level. Should I temper my knife again at a higher temperature or does too many tempers ruin the steel? FACTS and FANTASIES about FILE KNIVES. /in. I think that this temper method will work for For the blade to harden, it needs to cool below 900℉. It should “skate” across the edge leaving very few or no marks on it. Then test edge and if it is still to hard temper it again on higher temp . I harden by heating the blade to non-magnetic and 5) File/grind to shape, leaving a bit extra all around for decarb. Estimable Member Admin . I harden by heating the blade to non-magnetic and Mook is quite correct for a smaller whittling,chip carving, caping or other small detail knife or chisel I will surely temper at 350- 375 , though I tend to err on the side of caution, I know I can always touch up my edge, but if my knife snaps in half batoning it through a deer's pelvic bone how the heck am I going to skin the thing, much less make my camp fire knife from a file (finished images) Hello all, temper 400 My hunting knife is a Nicholson file. Still, once it's at tempering temp, it'll be a lot less likely to shatter. Tempering at 450°F led to a slight reduction in toughness because of tempered martensite embrittlement. Two options I can think of: Place the file in the sand and temper that way. Any help would be appreciated. Then again, it's going to be softer after tempering, right? I fretted over what to do, and finally contrived a test: I took a knife, also from 1084, that I heat-treated at my ABS intro course in August, and both tried to scratch the new Files skated, blades hardened to my level of satisfaction. Joined Apr 24, 2013 Messages 408. I quench it after 8min and did the file test and the file leave a mark on the blade. To re-temper a brittle file into a more resilient steel, do you have to re-harden and then re-temper, or just temper it again? I cooked a Nicholson file in my kitchen oven at 400 degrees for 90 minutes and again for 60 minutes. Double temper at 350°F (175°C) 2 hrs. " There are much better ways to do things but in caveman world, how did you do? I put the knife through a series of tests to show how durable and tough the blades can be. Why anneal a wood carving knife? When you anneal a wood carving knife blank, annealing it makes the steel much softer to work with and makes it faster to grind and easier to bend as well as making it less In the process of making knives, two crucial steps are quenching and tempering. If you plan to shape it without a powered grinder then you will most likely have A hard file can be tempered to knife hardness (around 450f) and then carefully ground into a knife. I haven't broken one yet but I am by no means a bladesmith. You have to cool the blade often while grinding, and if you let it change color, you're out of luck. I personally appreciate the ATS-34 steel in the blades of the S. When you cut shape of Quenching hardens the steel by trapping carbon atoms in a specific arrangement within the metal’s crystalline structure. Step-by-Step Guide to Making a Custom Knife from a File📐 Free Tanto knife templates - https://mazaydiy. For example hardening 1084 to 62 and tempering down to 60 vs hardening it to 65 and tempering to 60. All of this being said, good quality knife steel is readily availiable from many places, and could be your best bet for a good knife. Your experience shows what is preached over and over here. Again the 300°F temper fits the same trend line as the rest of the samples, so the thermal cycling does not seem to have affected toughness. If you are a new knifemaker and you make a knife with our 1095 that does not get hard, do not complain. The file and wire method of testing the hardness and temper of a blade can be quite accurate with a bit of experience on the part of the tester. Join the Knife Steel Nerds Patreon if you want to support knife steel research and get articles and videos early. Its not too difficult to work with and you consistently get good results. New comments cannot be posted. i made my first chinese style knife and after tempering it's blue. but slightly less hard than it is now, because a file is too brittle to make a good knife blade. Makes a great knife that holds a An essential part of crafting your blade is the heat treatment process. Compare the file's “bite” on the bevel to the unhardened area on the tang. I have a youtube channel with over 1000 Videos! Blacksmithing. I just finished heat treating my first blade. That will make most of the knife less hard. So First file knife complete! I tempered it at around 405 degrees for 2. What I do for heat treat is (simplified), normalize a few times (at least 2, sometimes more), heat to critical, quench, test with a file, if it passes go on to temper if not re-heat and quench again. Share Add a Comment. Definitely my favorite source of files. This crucial step involves reheating the hardened blade to a lower temperature, typically between 300°F and 700°F (150°C to 370°C), depending on the steel type and desired properties. Temper the Blade. The photo below shows my colors after the hour and a half. If you have properly hardened the knife, the file will not bite into the steel. People do use toaster ovens all the time with knife making, but only for the tempering cycles. The older the better, i use a lot of files, only old ones from certain makers, and certain country's, i surface grind them , anneal them non magnetic and leave them clamped to a milled steel flat bar pre warmed, never had a problem since, heat treat till non magnetic and oil quench , x2, with a visit to the freezer overnight in between, then 2 soaks oven tempering, i wont give times and Once your knife is all shaped up and your grind is set, it’s time to heat treat. Standard tempering time is 2 hours, at temperature. As is these files are too hard for a knife blade so they require a 430F temper which brings the working hardness to around 58-59. Sharpen the cutting edge of the blade using a whetstone, file, or electric sharpener. with 1084 this should give Rc62-64. This makes the file malleable enough to be formed into a knife. It worked for As far as file knives go, you're better off to take the file and temper it first, then grind it. When in doubt temper at If you anneal your file and then temper it you will be leaving a step in the process out. Some suggest buying a toaster oven for the sole purpose of knife tempering. I cooked an identical file with it and tried bending it. 1620) steel and tempered it with my kitchen oven at 250°C / 482 °F for 1h like in the datasheet. GICUSTOMhttp://www. This will "spheroidize" anneal the file, making it super soft for easy machine work. Our passion is crafting knives featuring forged blades in the pursuit of the ultimate high performance cutting tool Tempering, while often just covered as an afterthought in HT discussions may actually be the most complex 450 to 500 is a good temper temp for file knives. Let the knife completely cool off then heat it for 2 x 2-hour cycles at 400° (for a total of 4 hours). If not, temper Check for hardness using a file and see if the file grazes across with ease. Set the oven to a lower temperature (around 200 degrees) and repeat the heating and cooling process. Another reason was me getting a job, so I work For tempering in a kitchen oven I always fill a drywall pan with sand and let that come to temp and then stick my knives in the sand to temper. May 4, 2015 #1 Hi there, I forged a blade out of a file and hardened it. I tried the magnet test multiple times but my blade is still magnetic. It surely won’t be fancy, and may be little more than a prison shank, but it is the simplest method to make a file knife. Theres a lot of different types of files and mystery steel. Posted : 30/06/2024 2:21 pm Kevin R. You can use a bigger round file on thick blade material or a smaller round file when engraving liners or thin blades. com/user/Kraftsman100 Step 5: Temper Your Knife. File knives can be extremely hard relative to other knives and can shatter when dropped so the process is important. 1084 will give you a better blade than a higher carbon steel unless you have the equipment to fine tune the heat treat of the higher carbon steel. File testing is only slightly better than worthless, most people do not grind below their decarb before testing files will skate off of scale files will skate off of pearlite files will bite into the decarb layer of a full hardened blade making you believe your heat treatment failed The easiest way to learn about knives and steel is probably through my book: Knife Engineering; Steel, Heat Treating, and Geometry. Wait about 10 to 15 seconds before pulling the blade out and checking it for warping. I personally appreciate the ATS With differential tempering, you heat and quench the entire blade, and then temper the blade by heating the spine until the edge reaches the proper temperature. Save Share Reply Quote Like. If all went well, the file should feel glassy as it slides across the bevel. There are two components of heat treating: Hardening first. A file is a tool used to remove fine amounts of material from a workpiece. The main reason was that school was getting in the way, and taking all my time. I have many articles about all of the nitty gritty details Get an old nicholson file. I worked at the simmonds file plant in ohio before it closed. I will be giving y'all some behind the scene looks a Tempering a knife. impossible to confuse that with 60+. The final step is tempering. Home. This will help you determine if the blade needs to be further tempered or not. Or atleast in drawing color. Posts: 126 . Use a torch to spot anneal the areas for the pin holes. Again I am making these for the family so maybe 2 to 3 knives a year. Leave it to completely cool off at room temperature between the cycles. Understand that these are simple instructions for a very simple blade. For beginners, a set of three or four files should be adequate, while more experienced knife makers may opt for more specialized tools. He's told me the advantages of them, but I can't recall them. This is just enough for good edge retention without chipping. I used 1095 and 5160 are both fine to be tempering up to 450F. Tempering involves reheating the blade to a lower temperature, usually between 300°F and 500°F, and then allowing it to cool slowly. Quench to below 125°F (50°C). You have to cool the blade often while grinding, and if you let it change color, you're Then file and breaktests, and those will show you which got you the hardest and finest grain, that is likely your best temp. The world of Knifemaking Our mission is preserving and promoting the ancient craft of forged knives through education, testing and certification. One is to work the file in the hardened state,. Here is a tempering curve for a simple carbon steel similar to 1095: Image from [2] Drawing knives from a file. Tempering the Knife. the bone looks nice on the style of the knife. I do not recommend 1095 for beginning knifemakers. Recommended Hardness: 58 – 60HRC (after tempering) depending on the intended use. Be aware though. Specially the techniques used and please elaborate on the techniques where possible. Tempering is the absolute least likely thermal treatment to produce distortion, unless the blade is laying on it side or touching another blade, i. Can someone Tempering involves heating the blade to a non-critical temperature (350 – 450 F) to slightly soften the steel (I used a kitchen oven). I have articles categorized so you can see which look the most Continue reading Getting Started Lower tempering temperature led to reduced toughness, as expected. ) are not normally achieved with a single temper, but for knives, temper for at least one hour. Quenching can introduce excess hardness and undesirable brittleness to your knife. Return the steel blade to the oven and bring the steel up to tempering temperature (approximately between the range of 400 Just Tempering a couple of blades Tempering File Knife With Torch . Its an old Nicholson, I tempered it at 450 degrees and it came out perfect. How is the hardness? Did it skate a file on the edge? I'm Open menu Open navigation Go to Reddit Home. with a proper heat treat and temper. What temperature and how long should I temper a 52100 filet knife . If it looks good, take a file and scrape its corner across the steel. A properly hardened blade will be stronger than the file and resist scratching. Tempering also completes the process of hardening in that it converts remainders of soft steel that didn't quite make it to hard yet (retained austenite) into a hard martensitic structure, thereby making some steels even harder initially. What I'm using: A single handed draw knife and not a carving tool, I wonder why HBC bothered as I've seen photographs of no more than 50 such knives, all made from files. One time normalizing as they said above then harden and temper/ Clean all scale off then test with a file. It may take too long for your primary heat treat oven to cool down enough to use for tempering, so many knifemakers use a dedicated tempering oven or even their kitchen oven (our partners at Evenheat offer a really cool stackable configuration that combines a Depending on the use of the knife, that might be anywhere from straw yellow to a brownish (or brown with purple dots) sort of color for a file. Do you need to temper the files before you work on them. The process of hardening the knife itself is simple, since the file is a steel billet, which is designed for such work. I would file test after each tempering cycle to get to the desired hardness, assuming the part hardened properly when quenched. The materials you will need are a Sharpie® marker, a vise, and a 5/32-inch round file and a small triangle file. Super sharp and holds a good edge Here's a skinner . Sharp knives also maintain the integrity of the food, preventing it from becoming crushed or bruised during cutting. Set temperature at 350 to 375 F (for a harder knife) or 400 to 450 F for a So far the file test has been pretty spot on for me. Sharpening the Blade Makes It a Knife In this part we harden and temper the knife blade in the home made forge. The first knife was forged and heat treated, the second was ground and tempered twice at 400 degrees +- 5 degrees. Joined Nov 20, 2008 i made my first chinese style knife and after tempering it's blue. This will require a short The older the better, i use a lot of files, only old ones from certain makers, and certain country's, i surface grind them , anneal them non magnetic and leave them clamped to a milled steel flat bar pre warmed, never had a problem since, heat treat till non magnetic and oil quench , x2, with a visit to the freezer overnight in between, then 2 soaks oven tempering, i wont give times and To make grinding and shaping the file easier, you need to make it less hard. Repeat this operation four times. A good cleaning with a piece o thin brass sheet stock will take out most if not all clogged material, and a bath in a tub of old car battery's acid followed by a 2-3 hour water rinse and drying with plenty if paper towels will give it some more bite if needed. You temper it to heat the metal back up after that to get I was at a knife show recently and saw some beatiful knives made from files. I was at a knife show recently and saw some beatiful knives made from files. Using a file gives you an advantage if you do it correctly, because a file is already heat treated all you need to do is temper it and then grind it to shape. Plus, I don't have a space to safely anneal etc. Higher temperatures may lower the hardness of a knife. The other way is to build yourself a charcoal forge, get some 1080, do some stock removal, and heat treat it yourself. What I'm using: Knife From a Rasp: In this build I will show you how I made a knife from an old farriers rasp to sell to a friend. Give it a 425F temper and soft back draw. Afterward, the blade is very hard but also brittle, so you’ll want to temper it. Rockwell-tests will give you a better sure hardness I guarantee that after reading this article, you will be able to temper a blade like a pro. Tempering is what is done to steel that has been hardened and will make the steel softer Temper before grinding will make the grinding slightly easier but it will require patience, good abrasives and lots of dunking in water to keep it cool. grinding first allows for shaping, but tempering at the end ensures the blade doesn't become Tempering is accomplished by placing the blade into a pre-heated oven, of between 350F and 500F. Also, temper embrittlement is not an issue with tempering carbon steel knife blades. Next, we will go over Tempering. Is the color change a normal part of tempering? Issue tempering a Nicholson file knife. Recommended Heat Treatment: Austenitize 2050°F (1120°C). Depending on the use of the knife, that might be anywhere from straw yellow to a brownish (or brown with purple dots) sort of color for a file. Think of hardening as making it tough, but brittle. & M. Edited: Put it in the vice and snap it to length before tempering. Dull knives require more force to cut through ingredients, which can lead to slips and accidents. High-end files are made of stainless steel, and they provide a If you have belt grinder you can make nice knives from old files. You can also see a sharpie line I drew on the annealed blank- this is so I do not remove material past I have made three kit knives and had some good success. The duration of the tempering process affects the final properties of the steel. To re-temper a brittle file into a more resilient steel, do you have to re-harden Tempering reduces its brittleness but keeps it hard, making it perfect for cutting tools, blades, and springs. Some of the best knife makers in the world are on that forum and are willing to answer all questions and help everyone who goes there regardless of 1st knife or 1000th. George, I will probably forge most knives get a magnet to determine when to quench, and try your oven tempering as Nicholson file knife & temper? Thread starter noseoil; Start date Feb 19, 2017; noseoil. It should be noted, not all files are the same. I have articles categorized so you can see which look the most Continue reading Getting Started Tempering A File Knife. Red's Edge. (see below on tempering). 69_knives. After reaching the desired tempering temperature, remove the blade from the heat source and allow it to cool slowly. I only do it on rough finished knives after tempering, and grinding the forge scale off. The few file knives I have made I followed the following recipe (doesn't work for case hardened only through hardened files like a Nicholson). Knife From a Rasp: In this build I will show you how I made a knife from an old farriers rasp to sell to a friend. Now normalize the steel by heating to a dull red, and allowing it The #file #knife and #sanmi #blade is tempering now! The file knives range anywhere from small pocket FBs (OAL of around 5") to 9" or so. I've ground down some files into really brittle knives before, but my question is about re-tempering. Still, once it's at tempering temp, it'll Temper at 500, use a good sharp belt, and keep it cool as you grind. The precise tempering temperature will vary based on the type of steel being used, but it is typically between 350°F and 650°F. Suitable for tool making, this steel combines hardness and toughness with heat and fatigue resistance. minimum each temper. Both result in a Any oil or grease residue on the knife is going to affect the temper colour. In t As for the tempering, the thinner parts will temper more and faster than the thicker parts. saustin1967 Guide. Why would ya want them any softer? L. With differential tempering, you heat and quench the entire blade, and then temper the blade by heating the spine until the edge reaches the proper temperature. Look at the following articles first to get started. I will be giving y'all some behind the scene looks a The mill file blanks were heat treated in molten lead and brine quenched leaving them with a hardness of 67-70. Add your thoughts and get the conversation going. The cooling rate determines the hardness: the faster the cooling, the harder the blade becomes, while slower cooling results in Dont get to crazy with all the normalizing and soak times. This tempering process will leave the knife with about a 56 Rockwell Hardness rating. More on this later. or a combo of one of the above with wood. The easiest way to learn about knives and steel is probably through my book: Knife Engineering; Steel, Heat Treating, and Geometry. It is mostly made from high-carbon steels like 1095 and W1, which allows it to withstand heat-treating. Tempering the steel at around 220⁰C softens the steel and makes it a lot tougher and less brittle (but still a lot harder than it was before the overall heat treatment). As far as file knives go, you're better off to take the file and temper it first, then grind it. Last step is Kilns will complete the entire heat treating process, including annealing, normalizing, hardening, and tempering. If the file “bites” the blade didn’t harden, reheat to a To temper a saw blade knife, you will need to follow these steps: Preheat your oven to the recommended tempering temperature. 400 for an hour is a common way to get from 65 to a preferred 58-60 Rc for basic high carbon steels. Wood - To make your handle out of. You harden a knife to strengthen it. 1; 2; First Prev 2 of 2 Go to page. Using a file on a rust-free corner of the sample, the amount of bite can indicate carbon content in a hardened piece of steel. Bighaze51. This process, called To understand the mechanism by which tempering works, you can read my article on tempering. Temper colors are used in flame hardening, not oven hardening. Done. However, all is not lost if you want to start on the website. High-end files are made of stainless steel, and they provide a I was at a knife show recently and saw some beatiful knives made from files. Or go for the “Ultimate” tier and get a Knife Steel Nerds mug! Intro. So I would really appreciate if you guys could Hey @LogCabin, tempering at 400 should soften the file if it's hardened through and through. shape the wood with knives, files, sandpaper, and anything else you want to use. Like Thomas, my method is to grind the file hard being extremely careful not to over heat (any heat color at all). I just scrub the Hey all, my sister was in town and I found the motivation to fire up the coal forge to try and make some quick blades out of old files. Cut file in shape you want , temper twice on 200 Celsius and grind bevels. After an initial heat treatment has been done to boost the steel’s hardness, tempering then reduces some of that hardness to help improve its strength. We wrapped the blade in d First of all some of the Nicholson files made these days are cases hardened and are thus unsuitable for knife making. Longer tempering times generally result in a reduction of hardness but an increase in toughness. I hafted a modern HBC-style Moco blade, made in Sheffield, UK, like the Note (AMS 2759/5): retained austenite levels (typically <7% requirement) and dimensional stability requirements (typically <0. Step 5. quench in cold tap water, water temp not critical, just less than room temperature. It will also protect the blade against corrosion. Use a round file (3/8” ¾”” in size) to shape the radius near the blade. It can be easily forged and welded to itself and other steels. Care must be taken to keep the steel below 450f while grinding so that it is tempering after grinding is necessary to achieve the right balance of hardness and toughness. BP0420 Forging a Knife from an Old File by Don Abbott We’ve had several questions lately on forging knives from old files, so I thought I would give a step-by-step procedure for a simple method that I use from time to time. I have done a few File knives, and have done it the way Mathew is suggesting. 1) Make your knife from a hard file - Use the file almost as is to make a simple knife. the concensus seems 2 be temper for 1 hour at a standard temp you will use everytime, say 325F. you can dip just the cutting edge in the oil and let the spine cool slowly in the air. Lightly run a file over it. Tempering temperatures for high-carbon steel are usually lower, I looked at the video by Morris Knives and he oven tempers his files before doing his stock removal. The 1550°F austenitize led to a when you are done grinding the knife you attach the handle, first cut the wood scales, then glue on the wood, you do this by gluing the blocks of wood to the knife, the wood should be about 1/4 inch thick. The presence of retained austenite may reduce the net growth. There are those who want you to believe the only way to achieve a good heat treat is by using a temperature regulated heat treating oven, soaking for 15. Made in Nova Scotia, Canada. Does anyone know what steel files are made from? Also what clay is used to temper with and how do you find it? I want to start making great knives not just good ones. I used Uddeholm 1770 (C70 / 1. Just make sure your part is done as accurately and consistently as you can. 00010 in. Tempering is supposed to reduce some hardness so your tool isn't like a piece of glass, but there's a caveat. Cut the corners out of the tip of the file with the angle grinder with a cut of wheel, made some cuts in back - I was initially planning a peened over pommel like the original - but on I have looked in to all stages of knife building but have not come across any good info on tempering the knife after quenching. See more ideas about knife making, diy knife, custom knives. 5Hrs. Best for them to be hard enough that a file can't cut them. Link to comment Share on other When choosing the best files for knife making, it is important to consider the type of blade, the desired finish, and the level of skill required. Hamons - Some knifemakers like to use 1095 because they want to make a knife with a hamon. Temper 2 or 3 times for 1 to 1. This is the process of removing some of the I ground my third knife today from a file. Update on The few file knives I have made I followed the following recipe (doesn't work for case hardened only through hardened files like a Nicholson). There are two ways to do that. Creating custom knives is a skill many hobbyists and even some professionals enjoy honing. It has been a real time and money saver for a newb like myself. Not if the file knife has had it's hardness reduced by proper tempering. Everything went fine until the tempering (hardening). Larrin says: July 27, 2021 at 1:05 pm. You temper it to heat the metal back up after that to get Hey @LogCabin, tempering at 400 should soften the file if it's hardened through and through. Tempering is a method of heat treatment used to increase the resilience of iron-based alloys such as steel. You have been warned to use a different steel. Here’s where I’m concerned that I screwed up. If you want even better hamons, use 26C3 carbon steel. On the blade section it will have a glassy and smooth feel and sound. (heat, quench, temper, grind to c/u. Choose a suitable high-carbon steel file and clean it of rust and debris. Tempering involves heating the blade to a lower temperature after it has been quenched to release some of the residual stress and restore some of the toughness lost during the quenching process. Today we are doing episode 41 of the daily Vlog, I know a lot of people are at home because of all this Covid 19 stuff so I figured I would release a daily V Knife tempering « on: April 18, 2010, 04:45:48 PM » I am reworking an old knife (high carbon) and in the process of removing the crud and rust accumulate over time by draw filing I ran into a large area of the blade that is harder I make lots of file knives and temper them but leave them hardened. The tempering of martensite is relatively intuitive to anyone who heat treats knives: higher tempering temperatures means lower hardness. 3 times, and then quenched in park's knife heat treating I'm seeing tempering suggested at 600F (for 1095) which seems high for a knife. It hamanky, go over to blade forum, there is a great heat treat sticky in the knife makers forum. Check the edge using a file to be sure the blade hardened, if the file “skates “ then proceed to tempering. The hardness can be checked by the impact the file has against the grain. com/user/GICUSTOMKraftsman100http://www. Feb 19, 2017 #1 I'm working on a knife made from an old Nicholson handy file I had in the shop, best guess from reading is that it's 1095 steel, since it's from the mid 1970's. Tempering takes some of that brittleness back out of the blade. Once heated, the 1095 steel blade can become brittle so it needs to go through the process of tempering to develop the blade's hardness. Put it in your oven at 400 for ~1 hour. Whats the best temps for quenching and tempering a file knife Locked post. Temper in kitchen oven for one hour when wife is out of house. The finished knife is not as hard (brittle) as the original file. I saw some custom knives made from them that I thought were very nice. All of this being said, good quality knife steel is readily availiable from many They probably left a lot of hardness on the table that way. Tempering is usually done in a kitchen oven. 5 hour each. Be the first to comment Nobody's responded to this post yet. High temperature: the higher the Additionally, tempering time optimization is another important factor to consider. They are easy to work with and are typically made from 1095 high-carbon steel, which makes them ideal for heat-treating. Since I prefer to do a narrow tang/bolt through handle I will grind the files hard. Tempering second. If you have a file that is made from high carbon steel then drawing the temper in the file and then making a blade from it can work, I just don't know if I would go all the way up to 450°, I think that I would stop at 400° to keep a bit more hardness in it for I did do a file test coming out of the quench and THOUGHT it skated nicely, but after tempering I tried it again and wasn't so sure. How is the hardness? Did it skate a file on the edge? I'm admittedly caveman in this and still go by "skate a file good, file bites in bad. 6) Harden (one time)--heat to a little past critical (1500 F) and quench in 140 F canola oil (I'll get quenching oil asap) 7) Temper--two 2-hour heats to 425'F in the kitchen oven, cool between tempering cycles. From what I've read, files are something like 65 hardness on the Rockwell scale, Cheap import files are usually case-hardened low-carbon steel and not worth buying for use as blades OR files. You can continue softening the material by tempering, say if you start at 350F for an hour, then check. I've also done a couple dozen by annealing and re You will find that Nicholson files make excellent blades, but better to spheroidize anneal it and reheat treat after shaping, if you have access to a HT oven. Joined Mar 25, 2013 Messages 24. I would like to start making my own now. Then temper at 500 in the oven for a couple hours and cut Quick Summary Transforming an old file into a functional knife is a rewarding project that connects us with ancient blacksmithing traditions. this is a great steel for blades and simple methods work well. This time I tempered a file three times at 400 degrees +- five degrees for 1 1/2 hours, letting it cool in the oven to room temperature bet Rest a file on the bevel of the blade and move it back and forth, up and down the length. com/user/Kraftsman100 Hi, I need a little help tempering my knife made from a 1095 file. File & Wire knife that rides in my pocket everyday and I look forward to this continuing in future series productions. Our passion is crafting knives featuring forged blades in BP0420 Forging a Knife from an Old File by Don Abbott We’ve had several questions lately on forging knives from old files, so I thought I would give a step-by-step File - Newer files are case hardened so older files are definitely better Sand paper - 60, 100, 150, 220,300, 400 and 600 grit for progressive sanding. I have a bad history with snapping blades, and this time the internet can’t really help me. I havent made a knife or some other edged tools in a while, mostly because of the weather, but also because Im getting something wrong during the HT process, my guess being the tempering stage. If you can use a vice for it, steady pressure This is my first time trying to make a knife. It is common in woodworking, metalworking, and other similar trade and hobby The color a blade turns in the tempering oven is not an indication of anything. common iron which no one can temper. I tempered it at 400?F for 2 cycles of 2 hours. Hope this Today is episode 89 of this series on The Rivers' Experience! This series is called "Shop Talk Tuesday". This steel is often used to manufacture knives. The exact temp depends greatly on the type of steel, its carbon content, how In this article, we will cover everything you need to know about the tempering process of a knife, including: First of all, is tempering actually necessary? Explaining the process of tempering; How can you temper a blade I guess idealy one would temper a knife depending on its blade configuration (thin or thicker, and acuteness of the angle) and its use, cutting or chopping. lockbuilder. I do not have the money to get special heat ovens. Did you file test after hardening to confirm hardness? A file should skate on hardened 5160. At that temper, a file should not cut it, or at best, using the edge of the file, it may make a very fine scratch, but I really don't think so. Not an appropriate test here. But on the hardened part a file (regular nicholson 6" dual cut) will "skate" across it, and on the spine (less hard in my case) it will leave a mark, and honestly sound different. I have looked in to all stages of knife building but have not come across any good info on tempering the knife after quenching. How would the 2 knives perform differently? Reply. A propane torch is Tempering colours are really innacurate. If the file can easily bite in and reshape the material, mild steel is a possibility but to the degree the file slides or skates over the surface and cannot bite in, the material is hard and likely higher carbon. This will require a short Kamo demonstrates how to reduce the temper in a steel file. Joined Jan 23, 2011 Im working on a file knife now. To achieve such a color, the blade would have to have been ~ 320°C / 608 °F? The max temp setting of my oven is 250°C / 482 °F. e. Using a file gives you an advantage if you do it correctly, because a file is already heat treated all you need to do is temper it Our mission is preserving and promoting the ancient craft of forged knives through education, testing and certification. Differential tempering is a common technique used in bladesmithing to produce a knife with a hard edge and a softer spine. Thread starter Bighaze51; Start date Jun 19, 2014; Prev. I harden by heating the blade to non-magnetic and Mook is quite correct for a smaller whittling,chip carving, caping or other small detail knife or chisel I will surely temper at 350- 375 , though I tend to err on the side of caution, I know I can always touch up my edge, but if my knife snaps in half batoning it through a deer's pelvic bone how the heck am I going to skin the thing, much less make my camp fire Do Files Make Good Knives? Files are an excellent material for making high-quality knives. These elements enable you to alter the metal's physical features, optimizing the steel's working capabilities and durability. Have made many knives from those files. Hi knife making family are any of you familiar with Tome Feteira files? Are they full carbon steel or case hardened only? Case hardening shouldn't be a concern as long as you're planning on doing your own hardening and tempering- case hardening just means that only the outside layer was hardened. A file will slice right into it. If it is possible to find old-style tools that are made of homogeneous carbon steel, then it will be possible to get a quality construction. 7 minutes, normalized 2. Sanding was still extremely difficult afterwards, and other files still skate over it. The triangle file is ground safe (sanded) on two sides to produce one corner that is sharper than the other two Today is episode 89 of this series on The Rivers' Experience! This series is called "Shop Talk Tuesday". But you must be very careful not to burn the metal, if you do then Harden and then temper. After quenching, the steel is very hard but also very brittle. I hardly When choosing the best files for knife making, it is important to consider the type of blade, the desired finish, and the level of skill required. A tempered blade will hold a sharp edge and still retain strength and flexibility. File test is usually only something you want to try after you've quenched a blade, though. When the knife is nearly shaped, heat it to a cherry red, and forge with light fast blows until a dull red color is reached. Either way, it can easily be done with no annealing involved if you don't want to. And this video I'm just going to be showing how to temper hardened steel if you want to know how to harden steel go back to a different video of mine temperi Dec 18, 2017 - Tempering a quick file knife for edge retention testing #fileknife #knife #knives #knifemaking #diyknife #knifemaker As for the tempering, the thinner parts will temper more and faster than the thicker parts. Cashen. Joined Dec 26, 2012 Messages 1,029. Heated up the knife to a glowing red to take the temper out of the knife. The name of the file (nickleson) was visible in back of the handle and you could see the teeth of the file on the unground parts of the knife. A higher tempering temperature will produce a slightly softer steel with increased toughness, while a lower tempering temperature will produce a harder and somewhat more brittle material. Step 3: How To Temper A Knife Blade Temper the wood carving knife blade by heats the knife in a temperature controlled environment like a home oven (another good reason to use a food safe oil like canola instead of motor oil) at 350 to 450f for 1/2 hour to 2 hours. 5 hours. One had a slight warp. youtube. Once the knife is ready for a handle I harden and temper the blade. This step enhances the knife’s toughness without I made a knife from a heavy 14" x 1/4" thick farrier's rasp I bought for $5 at a flea market. com/diy-tanto-knife/👁🗨 3D model - https://grabcad. The right temperature to temper steel varies depending on the type of steel. Bushclass I. During quenching, the knife is heated to around 800 degrees Celsius and then rapidly cooled. I recommend you at least wipe the blades clean of oil before this step, and use a detergent/de-greaser like simple Here I have C-clamped the knife to a piece of wood, and put the wood in the vice, making it very easy to file the knife without it moving. run three temper cycles with cool down between to room temp, shoot for straw color First file knife complete! I tempered it at around 405 degrees for 2. We can then re harden it which would bring the steel into a Tool Steel hard but brittle state. From what I've read, files are something like 65 hardness on the Rockwell scale, too hard for a knife. So, not knowing if what you have actually IS 5160 make a test coupon, heat to non magnetic quench in warm oil, file test and if it skates put it in a vise, cover with a rag and hit it And then someone scribbled in 325 for knife tempering? 325 just ain't gonna cut it for fully hardened 1095. I have done some reading on torch tempering but would like to learn more about the method. This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be WATCH THIS BEFORE YOU MAKE A KNIFE WITH A FILEThe simple guide to making a knife with a file. Joined Nov 20, 2008 Not often, but it happens. Paragon Furnaces are equipped with a door safety switch that shuts off power What is the difference between tempering and quenching? Tempering and quenching are the processes that strengthen materials like iron, which is based on alloy and 106K subscribers in the knifemaking community. still wouldn't drill and I was afraid to heat it up more for fear that the heat would creep onto the blade and ruin the temper. The elements that will be necessary in order to temper a Tempering File Knife With Torch . Projects Contests I tempered the file back to make it a little softer and closer to finished knife hardness. A nontempered blade would probably be great for just cutting. ) If you are eyeballing temps, the results will be all over the place, anyway. It's crucial to understand the nuances of normalization, hardening, and tempering the blade. by Bernard Levine (c)1998; for Knives 99. How to test hardness with a hand file: Take your fine hand file and push forward across the edge of the blade. Get the best quality blacksmithing supplies for making knives. From there, (hopefully hoping there’s no warpage), temper in an oven at around 400F for 2 hours and from there Depending on the tools you have access to, and your level of patience, you could try tempering a file first to knife temper, then work it to finished dimensions taking care not to This process, known as tempering, can be done over a fire or using a blowtorch, but the simplest method is to put it in your oven at 400℉ for two one-hour cycles, letting the knife cool between An unlabeled file might be around 62 Rc or so and therefore if the knife is higher than 62 Rc (which most low alloy high carbon steels should be after quenching before One of the best tools for knife making is a file. It broke. You temper the file to remove the excess brittleness. But I do recommend buying a simple oven thermometer and preheating your oven for a little while so the Sep 11, 2019 - Explore Paul Leifeste's board "File knives" on Pinterest. To file place the knife in the vice so that it is griped close to the area to be filed. I planned to temper it in my toaster oven at 425 degrees for 1 hour, let it air cool and put it back in for another hour at 425. I temper 5160 at 400F and get 57-58HRC I have been making knives for a few years doing stock removal using files. This process hardens the knife significantly. Running the colors allows the spine or back end (knife, tool) to become softer, which can be beneficial, and So, metal is really expensive, but files aren't and they're readily available. The triangle file is ground safe (sanded) on two sides to produce one corner that is sharper than the other two Like the title says, I was wondering who has made knives from files or really, horse shoeing rasps. . When tempering at 300-750°F (150-400°C), freezing treatments may be necessary to minimize retained austenite. First, the setting: take to non-magnetic (brick forge with charcoal), Oil quench, oven temper at 400 for 1. The metal is too hard and I'm wondering if my tempering is inadequate. The file knife he purchased, it cleaned 3 hogs and never had to hit a stone. The recommendations of tempering at 300F, 325F, and 350F are generally too low for most all knife use. The exact temperature is very difficult to say since it is quite dependent on your specific heat treatment for that steel. Tempering is the final stage of the heat treating process, performed after hardening and quenching. Consider using something other than the hammer to correct warpage, as well. Step 13: Temper the Knife. 5 1) Make your knife from a hard file - Use the file almost as is to make a simple knife. However, if the file skates off of the annealed file, then you need to repeat and try and cool slower. I ground it out of 1/8 thick 1095. If you want to make a I've ground down some files into really brittle knives before, but my question is about re-tempering. If you had to remove the handle during the tempering The materials you will need are a Sharpie® marker, a vise, and a 5/32-inch round file and a small triangle file. After a few years he came back and purchased a few more. Grind off the teeth carefully so as not to ruin the heat treat. Joined Dec 14, 2016 simply "temper" the file at 1200F for 2 hours. Secondly, it's just been a I put the knife through a series of tests to show how durable and tough the blades can be. 2) Soften the steel by annealing it, and then make the knife with files and sandpaper. Tempering Oven: You will need an oven, set at a lower temperature, in which to temper the knife. During the tempering process, carbide will dissolve and transform to 450 to 500 is a good temper temp for file knives. You temper it to make it durable. I've seen unfinished knives with nice blue temper colour along the spine, heading down towards the edge is a purple leading into a brown to grey and full hardness on the cutting edge. If the file you want to use is a currently made product, it may be case hardened, and only a fraction of the Detail of a double-cut flat file showing cutting surfaces on both wide and narrow faces. This post will answer the question of why would you anneal a wood carving knife blank, what is annealing and how to anneal a knife blank in a home shop. Now has a dull straw colour. Tempering. Just finished a rasp file knife with natural elk antler This is my first time trying to make a knife. Go. Both result in a harder edge and a softer spine, but the differential temper will (all other things being equal) be a good bit stronger. The cooling rate determines the hardness: the faster the cooling, the harder the blade becomes, while slower cooling results in Do 4-5pcs at each tempering heat. This Whats the best temps for quenching and tempering a file knife Locked post. I heat my knife with a torch using butane for at least 5-7min. You can use a bigger round file on thick blade material or a Kamo demonstrates how to reduce the temper in a steel file. F. There are, however, plenty of opportunities during tempering, to straighten blades warped in previous heat treatments. The mill file blanks were heat treated in molten lead and brine quenched leaving them with a hardness of 67-70. I am assuming the files are too brittle to use as a knife without some kind of heat treating. I would certainly not skip tempering a kitchen knife altogether. as usual, if you want The materials you will need are a Sharpie® marker, a vise, and a 5/32-inch round file and a small triangle file. r/knifemaking A chip A close button A chip A close button However, if the file skates off of the annealed file, then you need to repeat and try and cool slower. Thread starter Red's Edge; Start date May 4, 2015; R. I have to point out that Im using mystery steels for my projects, mostly leaf springs and old files. The process of tempering involves heat treating a blade. Just finished a rasp file knife with natural elk antler Tempering a knife. Blacksmithing Home ; Introduction to Blacksmithing Part 1; You can test the hardness with a file. The sand as a heat sink will help maintain the temperature around the file at a more consistent level. What Does Knife Tempering? Knife tempering is the process of treating knives with heat, I have not made any knives for a while. The allure of using a file is twofold: for one, it looks nice. xef miuii qyu aute eirig ozsoh mribbc vhyooj uznhd tjtgnqz